Curse

actionjack · May 20, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Not a bad idea.

Could also include lots stuff into it making it a PvP-half game (but not as much as content as in a full game)

might have things like:
- Item that can only be earn with PvP. Weapons, Aromr, collectibles, cups and trophy, fun items.
- Story Mode. Can part take in a story (that use the Arena as the setting, like Blood Sport or Gladiator) if want to.
- PvE Arena. Fighting against Mob.
- More type of Battles.
- New Arena Town.
- New Proff.

it would be GW:Arena.

BigTru · May 20, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

I really can't believe someone takes this seriously. No PvE content anymore? That would reduce the game to some kind of real time Magic the Gathering. No way!

/not signed.

Did you even read the suggestion?

Pandora's box · May 20, 2006, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

Did you even read the suggestion?

The OP seems to suggest: in future let let PvE players pay the FULL price for the game and let PvP players buy a stripped version. Thats not fair. Almost every pro PvE post is countered by: 'this is a PvP game'. And now all of the sudden its too much PvE so allow PvP players PvP content only for a lower price? Oh, come on... Counting the number of 'this is a PvP game' reactions it would be more fair to do the opposite: Let PvE players buy a stripped PvE only version lol! Anyway:

-I don't buy expensive 'special editions'.
-Factions is almost purely a PvP game, so why complain?
-Many PvE players still wait for some major changes to make Factions worth playing.
-Given the poor PvE content Factions should be lower priced for everyone.

Again I plea for a lower price for future chapters, but only for owners of one of the earlier chapters: They don't need a box with all kinds of goodies. And for them halve the new game is almost the same as an earlier chapter. THAT seems fair to me...

Undivine · May 20, 2006, 11:01 PM // 23:01

I think at some point it won't quite be worth joining Guild Wars as a PvP only guy if you never owned any of the previous chapters, because in PvP everyone would have an advantage over you; they would all have access to a lot more skills.

So if they came out with a full-priced PvP-only version of a chapter that gave you all the new skills plus a backlog of all the skills from previous chapters, that would help you get into the game. Basically a package that is the PvP side of all the chapters in one.

But Pandora kinda has a good point. I'm a PvE only guy, and yet I am paying for this PvP side, whereas with this new PvP-only version, the PvPers have the luxury of paying less for the content they want.

Perhaps PvE and PvP never should have been combined into one game in the first place. Anyone who wants both can pay $25 x2 for 2 packages. I can pay $25 for just the one I use.

Now that I hear myself talking about it, I'm starting to doubt ANet will ever do such a thing.

=HT=Ingram · May 20, 2006, 11:28 PM // 23:28

How about the other way around for people that want rid of PvP entirely>??? Lets face it you have to live with both or it will not sell well enough. I personally could not give a shit for PvP as it stands. I have not played it much since the introduction of the Battle Ilse... And with the alliance battles Bait and switched, I have abandoned it as well... So All I care about is PvE.

So If I could get PvE only I would be just as happy as you Twits that want PvP only. I think the obvious factor is if they further segregate people they might as well make 2 stand alone games and see which is sold more, Then progress from there. If Chapter 3 is Only PvP content, it will be Obvious to me that I will have nothing to do with it. But I HIGHLY doubt that to be the case.

Sanji · May 21, 2006, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

The OP seems to suggest: in future let let PvE players pay the FULL price for the game and let PvP players buy a stripped version. Thats not fair.

So it's fair that if your only interest in buying new chapters is in skills and professions for price of a stand alone RPG game they don't want to play?

What large amount of PvP modes is Factions saddled with that you have to play through to get to the PvE? What inequity between PvE and PvP that favors PvP is there?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

Almost every pro PvE post is countered by: 'this is a PvP game'. And now all of the sudden its too much PvE so allow PvP players PvP content only for a lower price? Oh, come on... Counting the number of 'this is a PvP game' reactions it would be more fair to do the opposite: Let PvE players buy a stripped PvE only version lol! Anyway:

First off, I've never made that counter. Sure, I've seen that arguement... before and shortly after the release of Guild Wars Prophecies. These days, I don't see it anymore.

Obviously our outlook on Factions is drastically different. Let's not count the skills, character slots, and professions, as these are valid additions to both modes.

Factions added the following to PvP:

The Jade Quarry, Fort Aspenwood, and Etnaran Keys. Four new Guild Halls.

You can't get to the The Jade Quarry and Fort Aspenwood with a PvP character. To make matters worse, it's 8 missions deep if you're a Canthan character, 6 (not including getting to Lion's Arc) if you're a Tyrian.

You don't even get Balthazar Faction for playing Alliance battles. Only Kurzick/Luxon faction which is used towards controlling towns...for the sake of an Elite PvE mission if it's a captial or merchant discounts/fireworks if it's an outpost. Or you can trade it in for Jade/Amber...which is for prestige armor you can only access in PvE.

Also, the PvP missions aren't even that great to get farm Faction. There are alternatives which are often better in (you guessed it) PvE.

Factions added the following to PvE:

Note: a PvP character can access none of this content.

12 Storyline Missions, 5 Challenge Missions, 29 explorable areas not counting that you can now explore a lot of mission maps after you beat them, new prestige armor and weapon skins and new pets.

So, what exactly would you lose with a stripped down, PvE version? I'm dying to hear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

Again I plea for a lower price for future chapters, but only for owners of one of the earlier chapters: They don't need a box with all kinds of goodies. And for them halve the new game is almost the same as an earlier chapter. THAT seems fair to me...

I agree with you on that.

Kai Nui · May 21, 2006, 02:16 AM // 02:16

I was thinking that actually. Just sell Guild Wars PVP edition with no PVE content at all. You spawn on battle isles and have access to all the PVP material to unlock, that's it. Then online if you wanted to add new lands you'd pay a reduced fee since you've already bought the PVP.

Omega X · May 21, 2006, 02:34 AM // 02:34

/not signed

Jeff Strain would have a heart attack.

Sanji · May 21, 2006, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

/not signed

Jeff Strain would have a heart attack.

I merely made suggestion for a business model which I feel would preserve customers that Guild Wars is likely to eventually lose by giving them exactly what they want and cutting out what they do not.

Jeff Strain vision was ambitious, but in some ways it is flawed and unbalanced.

Prophecies attempted to mix PvE with PvP by at first forcing the player to play through PvE before they could get the skills they needed. Balthazar Faction fixed this to some extent but it is still not enough.

Faction's attempt was to provide PvE rewards through PvP, but that also is currently not doing so hot to combine these two methods of play. There are much prefered PvE alternatives and no incentive (including actually being enjoyable) for a PvP player to do so.

This suggestion was not meant to sever the userbase, but to maintain it. There is very little to change the formula of PvE (That is, skill hunting, playing through the storyline, building wealth, and gaining special skins for your weapons/armor instead of gaining levels and progressively stronger items) without scrapping the original mechanics of the game, but the same isn't true for PvP.

Not everyone is able to strike a balance between these two modes due to how it is presented. If my suggestion is too unreasonable, than my other hope is that Anet can figure out a better way to intergrate these two styles of play.

ReaverGTX · May 21, 2006, 03:12 AM // 03:12

U gotta be half-crazed thinking that up....

First: splitting GW into 2 versions (PvE and PvP) is bad for aNet cuz it means less profit for them. It may sound greedy from aNet's side but FFS, we don't even have to pay a monthly fee and u would still make it cheaper? (even if this is not the main idea) Even WoW is more expensive and u have to pay a monthly fee in their case (and the game even sux IMO). All those who would like to see GW cheaper don't tell me that with a PC at home and a net connection u don't have 50 bucks to pay for a chapter once in a year...

Second: think about the players who like both PvE and PvP or those who play PvE but try PvP once in a while or in the other way around. I know about lots of people who play PvE but are willing to try and if they like it, play PvP. I myself am also a player who likes PvE in the first place but tried PvP. Even though they kicked my *ss for sure, I will still try PvP later on. I know I can't be the best (and don't even wanna be) but I'm willing to step up and give it a try to be at least good in PvP. Just like I play CoD. After I beat the game on the hardest level I tried myself against real players and I turned out to be pretty good, even though there were and still are others who can beat me.

So basically, I don't think it's a good idea at all. It would simply mean to make a stand-alone "single player" and a stand-alone "multiplayer" GW.

/not singed

Omega X · May 21, 2006, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanji

I merely made suggestion for a business model which I feel would preserve customers that Guild Wars is likely to eventually lose by giving them exactly what they want and cutting out what they do not.

--------------------------------BEGIN CONTRADICTION--------------------

This suggestion was not meant to sever the userbase, but to maintain it.

Separating the game's elements means that the entire thing dies.

Not to mention that you made the BIGGEST contradiction EVER.

Separating PvE and PvP is exactly what you want. But then you state the opposite.

Some people I swear...

Sanji · May 21, 2006, 03:51 AM // 03:51

To automatically say it's less profit assumes that they will sell the same number of copies regardless of how many options they give the consumer.

If they release additional chapters one a year with a large amount of content for both aspects of the game, then sure, 50 bucks is a fair price.

If they release additional chapters every 6 months with an overwhelming amount of the content being based around PvE, 50 bucks is not a fair price for a PvP player and an optional package should be available to them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

Separating the game's elements means that the entire thing dies.

And I think that proceeding the way they are going is just as likely to kill Guild Wars.

It is not too much to say that a considerable amount of players on both sides feel Guild Wars is too bulky when it comes PvP and too light when it comes to PvE. That is the main flaw of Guild Wars as a hybrid game. By imposing far too much PvE on PvP players, you push them away. By not giving the PvE player enough to do, you push them away. It's an ambitious thing they are trying to do, but also an extremely difficult.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

Separating PvE and PvP is exactly what you want.

It isn't. I play far more PvE than PvP. I enjoy both, but think that if ANet isn't willing to step up the incentive for a PvP focused player to buy the expansion, they should try something else. Not everyone wants to play the "Gotta Catch 'em All!" skill hunting game before they can seriously play PvP, especially those who like to be flexible in all aspects.

I don't believe the majority of people would buy the PvP Edition of Guild Wars. What I do believe is that it would bring in more than enough people who weren't willing to buy Guild Wars in the first place and bring back those who dislike the direction the game is going.

When I said sever I did not mean PvP/PvE. I truly do not want the playerbase forced into two different groups. However, that does not mean I don't believe in giving people options if they truly have no interest in the other aspect of the game. As more chapters become released, it's going to be harder to get new blood that is flexible and competitive circulating into the PvP game. The gap and the unwillingness for a PvP focused player is going to get bigger if Guild Wars progresses as it does. That is what I meant when I said sever the userbase.

A PvE player, however, does not have to struggle with buying each chapter to keep up with the current metagame to stay competitive. While Guild Wars' PvE does not have the traditional artificial replay mechanics that a MMORPG does (IE: Not leveling to 70 or getting uber gear) it does have much more variation in zones and content than PvP does. If this is fixed, if there is a chapter focused on adding a huge amount of PvP maps and game modes or at least this gap is covered then I will have less of a problem.

That is what I meant, sorry for not being clear.

deathskrye · May 21, 2006, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Great idea
/signed

rollntider · May 21, 2006, 04:15 AM // 04:15

i dont like it. I like both aspects of the game.

/not signed

Autumn_Leaf · May 21, 2006, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

How about the other way around for people that want rid of PvP entirely>??? Lets face it you have to live with both or it will not sell well enough. I personally could not give a shit for PvP as it stands. I have not played it much since the introduction of the Battle Ilse... And with the alliance battles Bait and switched, I have abandoned it as well... So All I care about is PvE.

So If I could get PvE only I would be just as happy as you Twits that want PvP only. I think the obvious factor is if they further segregate people they might as well make 2 stand alone games and see which is sold more, Then progress from there. If Chapter 3 is Only PvP content, it will be Obvious to me that I will have nothing to do with it. But I HIGHLY doubt that to be the case.

i think the only fair thing is two have both options of pve only and pvp only.
i can never see a reason to have a pve only game though. this game seriously lack pve depth, and content in cantha seems far less interesting than prophecies. so far pve contains the general point A to Point B concept. in cantha thats not even mving far, well it is over the same place over and over again.
i'm still getting through the pve part because it should be easier getting the bulk of the skills that way than factioning it out. but pve has no real value in case of keeping you interested other than for the hard-core grinders and those who think money is everything.

Omega X · May 21, 2006, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanji

To automatically say it's less profit assumes that they will sell the same number of copies regardless of how many options they give the consumer.

If they release additional chapters one a year with a large amount of content for both aspects of the game, then sure, 50 bucks is a fair price.

If they release additional chapters every 6 months with an overwhelming amount of the content being based around PvE, 50 bucks is not a fair price for a PvP player and an optional package should be available to them.

And I think that proceeding the way they are going is just as likely to kill Guild Wars.

It is not too much to say that a considerable amount of players on both sides feel Guild Wars is too bulky when it comes PvP and too light when it comes to PvE. That is the main flaw of Guild Wars as a hybrid game. By imposing far too much PvE on PvP players, you push them away. By not giving the PvE player enough to do, you push them away. It's an ambitious thing they are trying to do, but also an extremely difficult.

It isn't. I play far more PvE than PvP. I enjoy both, but think that if ANet isn't willing to step up the incentive for a PvP focused player to buy the expansion, they should try something else. Not everyone wants to play the "Gotta Catch 'em All!" skill hunting game before they can seriously play PvP, especially those who like to be flexible in all aspects.

I don't believe the majority of people would buy the PvP Edition of Guild Wars. What I do believe is that it would bring in more than enough people who weren't willing to buy Guild Wars in the first place and bring back those who dislike the direction the game is going.

When I said sever I did not mean PvP/PvE. I truly do not want the playerbase forced into two different groups. However, that does not mean I don't believe in giving people options if they truly have no interest in the other aspect of the game. As more chapters become released, it's going to be harder to get new blood that is flexible and competitive circulating into the PvP game. The gap and the unwillingness for a PvP focused player is going to get bigger if Guild Wars progresses as it does. That is what I meant when I said sever the userbase.

A PvE player, however, does not have to struggle with buying each chapter to keep up with the current metagame to stay competitive. While Guild Wars' PvE does not have the traditional artificial replay mechanics that a MMORPG does (IE: Not leveling to 70 or getting uber gear) it does have much more variation in zones and content than PvP does. If this is fixed, if there is a chapter focused on adding a huge amount of PvP maps and game modes or at least this gap is covered then I will have less of a problem.

That is what I meant, sorry for not being clear.

Skipping ALLLLL of the moral fluff and contradictions...

Your suggesting THIS TIME that the PvP element of the game is not as expanded as PvE was. Correct?

So WHY NOT petition for MORE PVP CONTENT. Because THAT is what you really want.

I doubt that Anet will waste resources on making a PvP only copy on a whim that people "might" buy it. The Same would go for PvE as well. PvE at its current state would NOT survive without an aesthetics overhaul. AND if they wouldn't do it, then PvE Guild Wars DIES.

PvP would be left, but that isn't pulling customers as much as people would think it is. That also would need just as many infusions as PvE would and would also slowly die off. Honestly, they could try but the lack of sales would cause NC Soft to can it.

They need to market PvE and PvP together as one complete package or the entire thing DIES. I will admit that they do need to add things on ALL fronts but giving customers half an incentive to buy means they only get half of the profits they could have been making.

Sanji · May 21, 2006, 05:33 AM // 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

Skipping ALLLLL of the moral fluff and contradictions...

I love you too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

Your suggesting THIS TIME that the PvP element of the game is not as expanded as PvE was. Correct?

I didn't suggest it "this time", I reinforced a something I already touched on earlier in this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

So WHY NOT petition for MORE PVP CONTENT. Because THAT is what you really want.

Why don't you stop presuming what I want?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

I doubt that Anet will waste resources on making a PvP only copy on a whim that people "might" buy it.

Oh? Would it be that much taxing on the coffers to do what I suggest compared to having a special account type that gives you a funny little dance and a limited edition mini-pet?

At any rate, if you doubt Anet would even consider this suggestion so much, why do are you attacking it so viciously?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

The Same would go for PvE as well. PvE at its current state would NOT survive without an aesthetics overhaul. AND if they wouldn't do it, then PvE Guild Wars DIES.

PvP would be left, but that isn't pulling customers as much as people would think it is. That also would need just as many infusions as PvE would and would also slowly die off. Honestly, they could try but the lack of sales would cause NC Soft to can it.

The main problem I have isn't the level of content, it's that PvP and PvE, as the game stands now, only vaguely interact with each other. In many ways that players dislike. This isn't going to get better if it remains unchanged.

I don't see how Guild Wars is going to keep PvE players who figure out Guild Wars isn't fee-less MMORPG. There's little Anet can do about that without cracking the game open and radically changing something. The "You should be grateful! You don't have to pay monthly fees!" arguement is going to stop reaching players eventually.

However, we don't have to lose PvP players who think Guild Wars is a grindfest mixed with an CCG where you need to keep buying to keep up with the competitive environment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

They need to market PvE and PvP together as one complete package or the entire thing DIES. I will admit that they do need to add things on ALL fronts but giving customers half an incentive to buy means they only get half of the profits they could have been making.

They already ARE giving customers half an incentive to buy, though. Again, this isn't going to get better as more chapters are released unless something changes.

Don't get me wrong, while I am critical of certain things and I am unable to understand what Anet is thinking with their Stand Alone RPG platform, I still have a lot of faith in Anet and would very much like to see Guild Wars continue to be success.

Otherwise, I wouldn't waste so much energy or so many strong words in this thread.

lyra_song · May 21, 2006, 05:49 AM // 05:49

I had suggested something opposite before, a PvE only chapter.

No new professions, No new skills, only new areas to explore, more monsters to kill, new stories, new quests, new weapon skins, new armor skins, new pets.

It seems to me that any and all PvP content is already being given automatically for free in updates because it is required if any balance is to occur between all chapter owners.

Sanji · May 21, 2006, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

I had suggested something opposite before, a PvE only chapter.

No new professions, No new skills, only new areas to explore, more monsters to kill, new stories, new quests, new weapon skins, new armor skins, new pets.

You know what? I'm not going to lie, I really like that idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

It seems to me that any and all PvP content is already being given automatically for free in updates because it is required if any balance is to occur between all chapter owners.

Skills aren't given for free. Perhaps this thread is too early, but I still think it's a point worth making. I hope people start to understand this thread as I am starting to. This is merely a suggestion that should be considered, a topic that should be discussed, but not a demand of immediate action.

After a couple chapters, we'll definately see if how Anet decides to package the additional skills. Whether they will be redundant and not worth buying as a PvP player if you have the core game or if it creates a massive inequity which bars you from truly competitive play.

lyra_song · May 21, 2006, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanji

YSkills aren't given for free. Perhaps this thread is too early, but I still think it's a point worth making. I hope people start to understand this thread as I have am starting to. This is merely a suggestion that should be considered, a topic that should be discussed, but not a demand of immediate action.

After a couple chapters, we'll definately see if how Anet decides to package the additional skills. Whether they will be redundant and not worth buying as a PvP player if you have the core game or if it creates a massive inequity which bars you from truly competitive play.

Its true that new skills only come with Factions, but with my idea of a non-professions/skill expansion, it would give all new skills, areas to battle, guild halls, etc for free available to all chapters.

PvP players wouldnt be gimped, and PvE players can continue to buy the new chapters for the RPG/Vanity stuff.